Fist de Yuma - November 4, 2002

Some testing I've been approached by a number of sites about them hosting my column. I have been loyal to Olthoi Lair as they gave me my start. There are a few limitations to the Lair and it is possible I might outgrow it someday. For this reason I'm going to try duel posting the column with the Vault. It will give me more options with format and other things. I'll keep the column here as much as possible. It is very likely that it will always be here. I'm a free thinker and will say what I think. If wrong I'll apologize and mean it. I don't think a lot of big places can take that without trying to censer me and I'll not stand for that. The other thing is the donations. I have rejected a good offer because they would not let me have that. I don't get very much but take pride in each dollar. It also lets me tell the wife I'm a professional writer. (grin) Last year came to about 200 dollars, not a large amount but it lets me save for small upgrades. Lastly is timing. I want the column posted within hours of my finishing it. I write all week and spend Monday smoothing it out and eliminating mistakes. It will generally post around 1am Tuesday morning. The Lair lets me post it myself so there is no problem. The Vault will have someone post it for me. I'm hoping that this posting will occur by 11am at the latest. The thing that got me to make this change was last week. There was a part of the column from a guest that would not go into the Lair. The people who have donated to me got that part but it was not able to post it to the Lair. It was a little bonus for those that have donated to me. What the problem was I don't know. It was sent to me again in case there was some hidden corruption I could not see. I intended to post it this week but the column is running too long. I'll see if it fits in next week. So those that might be new to the column I'll make a few comments about myself. I have played AC since retail. I have an old time melee (126), and Og mage (121), a tank archer (62) and a template I invented called the Fist template. (spec Life/UA) (87) I'm anti chain anti macro and believe in honor. I try to play to have fun and nothing else. This is a game but not only a game. The interaction with others is at least half the fun and others mean feelings. It is far better to help people than gain a small advantage in experience or loot. I'm 52 years old. I'm a retired Marine and former programmer. I work at home now and enjoying life to it's fullest. I have a small problem if dyslexia that I have mostly overcome. Nevertheless I'll make stupid errors that bother me to no end. If you see one of those errors be assured I removed 20 for every one that makes it in. The biggest problem of course will be a correctly spelt word that is not the correct word. Teaming As I have stated before two or more people teaming is far more powerful than each alone. However, I have never gone over the how's and why's of that. This came to me as I teamed with my good friend Annunaki the Sad today. Outside teaming Mage/Archer There are a few teams that work well outside. The very best is Archer and Mage. The mage does a lot of work but far less than when alone. The main advantage to this is it is so easy. There is very little training necessary and two smart players can get the routine down in a few minutes. The mage leads with Imperil of course. If fighting one really hard monster a mage might add a vuln into it but that is very rare. Any monster that an Archer would have a hard time with a mage can take with ease so the balance works well. There is a rumor that imperil and Armor Rendering bows don't work. I have found that I do far more damage with Imperil. No monster has lowered damage after Imperil was placed on it. There might be some monsters where this is true but I have not found any. Nevertheless I find a lot of people who have taken this verbatim and never did any testing. Imperil and Armor Rending works. Test to see of there is a monster it does not work on but I will bet there are very few. The second job of the mage is to toss heals and stamina on the Archer. This is generally a non-issue as the imperil has the mage being attacked, not the archer. Still the mage must be aware when a hard hitter or spell user targets the archer. All an archer needs to learn is how the mage thinks. People get into habits. A little verbal commutation will help but if the archer can learn to anticipate the mage things go very smooth. This is especially important when teaming with someone like me. I tend to be non-stop and the archer has to keep up. A good position is to have the archer directly behind the mage. A charging monster is on the best path for the Archer. Mage/Mage This is another team that works well but it takes a lot more time to learn. The problem is duplication of effort. For the first hour or so they will both be vuln'ing the same monster and firing spells after the monster is dead. They have to learn the habits of each other and be ready to adapt. When teaming with Sad I stated early that I would start on the right hand monsters. This let her start on the left hand and clear twice as fast. We tried to keep to the same thing when engaged at close range. I would always target the right hand monster first, whether they were ringing her or me. When your partner faces a heavy hitter, such as a Vapor Golem, it is sometimes better to toss a heal before engaging. This will often be a wasted spell but when it is needed it is a lifesaver. Don't count on the indicator. With a dialup it is always wrong. I'm not sure with broadband but I bet it is wrong there as well. After two mages get teaming down this is more powerful than the mage/archer but only with a good team. This is not easy and can be very frustrating. Mage/Melee or Melee/Archer This one is very hard. Lets face it, melees suck outdoors. Only against good size mobs that charge a lot can they even be useful when teaming. The mage or archer is generally working hard to even get the melee into the action. If the melee charges into a pile the mage will spend more time keeping them alive than battling. For pure xp outdoors hunting this combo is not recommended. The xp will be slower than a mage alone. The best tactic is for the mage to imperil everything and then attack as normal. Against single monsters this may mean it is dead before the melee can swing. The melee just has to wait. Against more than one, which is the norm, the melee waits for one monsters to pass him and attacks. This will automatically give him back shots. Against larger numbers of monsters this will work very well but against smaller numbers the melee will not feel useful. Nevertheless there is a good reason to hunt outdoors with a melee. This is when you expect to partner with the melee on quests or in fellows on the island. This also works well if you have several melee and one mage. When teaming for quests melee teaming is different. When questing killing lots of stuff is not the issue. There is nothing better on a quest than a strong melee at your side. If you never train with a melee as a mage or archer you will not do well when questing with one. Indoors Mage/Archer This team is strong but requires a lot more coordination. Unless the archer is one of the high melee defense archers the mage will need to constantly toss heals and there is the frequent danger of the archer getting one shotted. This is a strong combo but it can be overwhelmed in tight fights. Mage/Mage This will work most of the time and a good team can do about anything. Nevertheless this team will do far better outside and needs a good reason to be indoors. Mage/Melee This is the strongest team there is for indoor work. A good melee will bock things up so the Mage is safe as a baby in their mothers arms. Imperil means one or two swings will down even the hardest monster. A good team of melee/mage is about unbeatable when indoors. Again it takes training. You have to know how your partner thinks. If you know which monster your partner will attack next you can imperil it. If the Melee knows how you tend to select he can match you and not be attacking a non-weakened monster. Melee/Archer This is one of those awkward combo's. The archer will get most of the kills but take most of the damage. If smart they will let the melee start the combat and have the Archer shoot over the shoulder. The big weakness to this combo is the lack of Imperil and heals. Of course the strongest combo going indoors is mage/archer/melee. Big hitters, good blocker and Imperil/heals make it the best. There are few monsters that can stand up to this. Even the strongest combos will be defeated if they don't learn to work together. Imperils on the wrong monster will get people killed. Lack of timely heals will get people killed. Shooting at the wrong monster will get people killed. Not blocking and running around will get people killed. Depending on War because you're bored will get people killed. I have been on quests where strong groups were overwhelmed. Two people who could work together ended up recovering the bodies, even with the far less power. Teamwork does not mean tossing people together and hoping they do the right thing. It takes time and effort to learn to work with someone else. It may mean putting what you feel is your strength on the back burner. It may mean letting someone else get all the glory. Not fair but to be successful it has to be done. I'll give you some examples. When Sidarthar and I teamed it was an outdoor melee/mage situation. About all I did was guard Sids back while he did the killing. Boring, somewhat, but when I was needed I saved his ass. When we were fighting the first Matties I was about useless, until the Tuskers and Bandies charged the mages. Then I was well loved by the mages. This might seem odd today but in the first few months of the game mages had little defense. When Sid and I first teamed in BSD, this was before they lowered the spawning speed, we were in our prime. The two of us could take on hordes of Tuskers that very few could stand up to. This was despite his lack of Item for banes and my ignorance of the need for them. Imagine how hard a Tusker would hit without banes. (I used UA IV gloves!) In the Shadow Wars I called old friends including one of the best archers I ever knew. With the two of us teaming we were taking down Shadows that others were dieing to. This was despite our ignorance about protections. Without a mage we were taking full blasts from War spells. On a quest at the Lighting Prism we had a strong party of melees and archers killed. This was the fault of all of us. We were fighting as individuals, not as a team. When there was only two of us left, me and LP, we started working as a team. The two of us cleared and recovered the bodies. Later when the group started working together the same spawns were sweep aside with little trouble. When I teamed with William the Bat and Duir we worked well at a team. We were clearing spawns that would have taken me an hour or more in ten minutes. With more experience I'm sure we could be even better. When Mage was young and without War he would team with Zane. We had a blast as he killed and I supported. In the low teens we were taking on monsters that people twice our level had trouble with. There is no excuse to not team these days. When you needed to be within 5 levels of your partner teaming was not that easy. Now anyone over 50 can team and get close to the same xp, in far shorter time. Of course there is a trust factor. Sad hit on it after the first hour. This is division of loot. There are generally items that someone is looking for. This might be Minor/Major magic item or good weapons. In the case of Sad it was mahogany. She needed it for her Archer. I was looking for UA weapons of 4-14 or more and sunstone. After breaking three 4-14 Cestus with sunstone the other day I'm fearing a Armor Rendering Cestus will take a while. With both of us looking for different items there was no conflict. The money stuff I wanted she was leaving on the ground so we did not even have that problem. In a Mage/Archer (melee) team the mage will seldom get the kill. If the archer is not trusted to divide the loot fairly there will be conflict. I highly recommend you have loot sharing on and taking turn in looting. Having a clear idea what you want and expressing it will help your partner and you. If you do conflict then find a way to share. It will not be very smart to spend all that time training if you cannot agree to share. The team will not last long. Thoughts on PK Lite. PK Lite is an idea brought up a while back. The base idea is you can PK but not loot. Many hate the idea but the people in the game for fun and adventure love it. The stated reason people go PK is the challenge of fighting an intelligence far better than any artificial intelligence can provide. If that is so there is no need for loot. It comes down to base fairness. Lets assume that everyone has no drop shadow armor and feather helm. This leaves a set of cheap gants and sollects on the mage. A mage might drop everything they own and for a few pyreal they have new gant/sollects that puts them back to full power. Of course they still have to work off vit but that is fairly easy for a mage. Buffing will be painful but even dropping down in spells will let them work off vit and do a better buff. A melee can get the same, other than a shield, if he has Creature and Life or an outside buffer. Many melee are using outside buffers now as trying to put VII spells on with vit is almost impossible for a melee. I would not have tried PK if I could not have used Jr to buff Fist. This leaves the melee with only one big disadvantage. Their most powerful weapons cannot be use. If the weapon is droppable they have to carry DI's which can be very costly and don't always work. I have seen items with very low cost drop over high value items. This is rare but it will happen. So the only way a melee can match a mage in dropping loot is to weaken an already very weak PK player. If they don't have Life/Creature/Buffer they have to be far weaker as their support items cannot be used. The biggest problem I had as PK was hitting things with no attack bonus on my weapon. I was using a deadly hollow, which cannot be buffed. There were at least two archers that my 435 UA could not touch. With a +28% it on the weapon it would have been a different story. Archers are in the same bind and maybe even more so. Unless they want to fight with their composite they are in danger of dropping the bow. I have seen players use some very nice bows. I'm sure when they die the drop a lot of cash items. Covering the bow could be very painful, and again, not always work. A mage with healing that knows they are doing will generally defeat a melee and reap a large reward. The melee that overcomes the odds will get far less. An archer has a slightly better chance against a mage if they have the right bow. That same bow is at risk in each battle and the DI's are costly. This had meant that most PK's are mages and there are very few PK's on each server. I'm not taking about Darktide as I know little about that. Things might be different there but I doubt it. If looting was eliminated many PK's would quit the game. For everyone that did ten more players would go PK for the fun of it. I would predict that 25% or more of each server would be PK if there was no looting. Others predict a much higher percentage. I know I would go PK a lot if this was an option. The answer that solves it all is PK Lite. This let DT be unchanged and those who want to loot got full PK. Of course for the most part they would be alone but that would only prove the point. I know I'll get a lot of hate mail over this one. There are a lot of hateful looters who don't want others in their exclusive club. Already the griffer PK's are calling this Pink Killers. If PK Lite is not possible than go full no loot. Until this problem is fixed PK will only be and afterthought or something to watch when there is nothing fun to do. Day in the Life There are days when I just fight stuff to level and gain cash/items. There are other days when I just sit and talk with people. There are adventure days and days when I just wander around and let thing happen. For years I had saw the name Crater Pathway. I figured it was about time I checked it out. It was getting old climbing up the hills to get to the Crater and I hate to count on bots for a ride. I did a little checking from different starting spots in ACE and found the best route was from Mayoi. There is a Song something portal to a housing complex close to the Crater Pathway entrance. Because of being sick last week my vassals and friends have been asking how I feel. From Wednesday on I have been feeling great. I got a tell from Illumini about my health. She said he was camping a big golem in Mayoi. As I was on my way there anyway I told her I would check it out. I ran south/south/east from Nanto. With a 448 run it did not take me much time. The first thing that pop'ed up was a Pyreal Golem. I had fought them before but I was a lot weaker and my weapons were far poorer. I rushed up and was surprised how fast I killed it. From there I joined Illumini and a little fellow defending Mayoi from the Elementals and golems. I did most of the killing at first. Then Harry Pooter and some other archers arrived and I was more a blocking dummy than a killer. I started going around Mayoi and killing Pyreal Golems and Diamond Golems. To my surprise the Diamond Golems were far harder to kill, for Fist anyway. In one battle I missed a heal with around 100 hit points and the Diamond golem chain cast'ed two shock waves to kill me. That sucked but the gang killing off the golems had my vit gone before I was finished buffing. I had one close call when I ran off with 25 hit points. With only VI protection a VI de-buff and blast will hit hard. A few in a row will finish me off. Illumini kept running over to heal me and check my status. Despite my low death count (92) most people who see me fight think I'm crazy. I have no idea why, I think I'm quite cautious myself. I locked up twice in a few minutes time. The first I lucked out and did not die and the second Illumini saw me in trouble and kept me alive until I timed out and logged off. Sure be happy when I find out how to fix this. To keep Illumini where she was needed I rejoined the battle with the golems. I had an idea. I told Illumini to log her Mace fighter and I would log mage to replace Illumini. We did that for another hour or so and had a blast. I'm not sure what the holdup was but it took several hours before the quest was finished and the spawns stopped. Crater Pathway Illumini had to log for some RL life stuff and I was only there to support her. As she logged I logged off Mage and back on Fist to finish his mini quest. I found the Song portal right off and that got me about 5 clicks from the Crater pathway. It might be a nasty spot for low to mid levels but after you can resist Ziffers it is not bad. There were a few low level Wisps there as well and a whole lot of Ziffers but they could not damage me. Crater pathway is very straight forward. Nicely laid out with a lot of twist and turns but nothing that would get you lost. Just keep going forward and you get there. I got to the end and the portal said surface. I was a touch confused. Had I got turned around somehow and was back at the start? I took the portal and came out at the Crater. So I have a fast route to the Crater now when I need it. I can also tie to it if I need to help some people get there. Unexpected Adventure As I came out of the Crater pathway I saw a Elder I had not seen before. He asked me where the housing portals were. I quickly checked ACE and told him to follow the lake until it turned west, then head east up the hill. I decided to follow and see if he got there ok as he seemed unsure of my instructions. We both got to the portal about the same time. He asked me if I could help him with a body recovery. Of course I agreed. From the housing complex he lead me north for a few clicks and was near the old War scroll turn in. This is now part of the big quest. It was filled with Fire Elementals so I pulled my Frost Atlan out. There are a few Elementals that are not affected much with the new Atlans but fortunately the Fire Elementals are not in that category. He was surprised how fast I cleared it as he recovered his body. As the golem for the quest was not there, there was no reason to stay. I wished him well and ported back to the mansion. I gained some knowledge doing this. Given that my players are all over the limit on that part of the quest I might not be able to use it. If I ever lead a group there I'll have a fast route. I might also need to do the Fire prism and this route is close to that. In defense of Archers There is a lot of frustration on the boards about Archers. With the new improvements Archers are doing at high levels what they did at low levels, out killing everyone. What the Melee and Mages are missing are the compromises Archers have to make for this power. Lets start with templates. It is impossible to spec Bow, Lore and Melee while still having all the skills to be self-contained. The only savor with this problem is Alchemy can be pawned off on a mule with little trouble. I have seen many who pawn off Fletching as well but I consider that unplayable. You will see a lot of the bad players pass on Fletching so they can carve Sings. We are use to players having access to high-level mules or making one themselves. There are a lot of players that don't belong to big alliances or have the time to work mules. This makes Archery a big problem for them. My new vassal Tille said she had to beg for Fletching and Alchemy work until she was high enough to get the skills herself. Now she has a mule who can do Alchemy and has Fletching but it took a while. People like her deserver the new balancing. I feel the best start an Archer can make is to spec Bow, Melee D, Lore and train Item. Path is Healing, Fletching, Mana Conversion, Life and Creature. This means Life comes at the high level of 75 and Creature is delayed until 115. In the normal process this will take years. For a long time this template was very hard to play. True it is not as hard as a pure melee but even a pure melee can gain magic skills faster. With some templates a Melee can even spec' Life. A melee will also have other support skills, such as lock pick. Sword Melee is the best way to go right now but there are Spec'd Life/UA and other templates that are strong. Even the hardest of them are done at 100 when the spec'd Sword can get Creature. The difference from 100 to 115 is immense. Mages are done at 65 unless they take one of the grief templates. The most powerful template for mages is BM. By 65 they have Lore and are ready for support side skills. Arches don't have that option. Of course it is possible for and Archer to train Melee Defense and have credits equal to a melee and mages. This may well be the developers' intent. The problem with this is it increases the biggest problem an Archer has to contend with. An Archers big weakness is the lack of a shield. Any monster that can hit them hit them far harder than a melee. I have seen melee's run themselves totally out of stamina in big Olthoi fights and just use the shield defense to keep them alive. Take any monster you fight as a melee that can use a Shield. Compare damage with the same monster that does not use one or where you can get a back shot. The difference is night and day. Many archers are pushing melee defense to try and overcome this. I started my Archer with 80 quick to added as much Melee Defense as possible. Some players will start with 100 to maximize their Melee D. Burden is always a problem with Archers. While my mage is setting nice with a 60 burden start my Archer is lucky to be under 90. I try to limit my arrows but there are times I need several types and this is a big problem. My Archer had to sacrifice a lot of magic skill to be as strong as he is. I started with 100 Strength which left only enough points for a 30/10 focus/self start. Those that start with less Strength have even bigger burden problems. You will see Archers stopping a lot to make arrows. This requires a lot of points into Fletching to do, especially with a low Focus start. Melee and Mage can keep going while the Archer has to worry about running out of ammo. It is not hard to burn 1000 arrows in a single hunt. Switching attack types in combat is a pain and a half. For UA it is simple and cost no time. I'm not sure about other melee but and Archer will drop out of combat mode! This leaves them open to massive damage as they try to get back to war mode. A mage has even less trouble, just use different spells. Of course the Archer gains by not having to buff different weapons but much have the arrow types ready. Melee can hunt if they run out of comps. With Melee only using comps for buffing they don't need many for hours of hunting. With mana stones as loot they can keep things charge and never return to town. Mages burn a lot of comps but the typical mage can carry several hours of comps with little burden today. It was very different before but today mages have it easy in the burden department. Archers are in the same boat for comps with the additional problem of Fletching gear. Again this is not a problem if you're a one hour at a time hunter. (Back to buff Bot or and support mule when buffs fall.) It still takes a long time to build up to fighting big stuff. This is another limitation for an Archer. Of course the leveling cheats allow someone to pass right over this. No the problem is not Archers. The problem is some of the people who use bows. They macro/chain their levels. They count on total outside support for buffs and equipment. They never learn the game because they can only play it an hour at a time. When they play it is not about learning to be an Archer, it is about leveling. Old time Archers knew the shield problem very well. The best of them worked on racial skills and carried a weapon and shield for indoor work. This was before buff bots and leveling cheats. Archers that were created a few months ago are hitting 100+ and in some cases 126. They can out kill any player in the game. They have all the magic skills they need and think they are Gods. If not for the leveling cheats they would all be hitting 60 today, be limited to Item magic and looking to team with a mage. The old time Archers are in their 80's to 90's now. They worked their way up and dealt with the "Wall" for a long time. Now that their waiting have pay off they find the leveling Dweebs have surpassed them and created a bad rep that they have to live with. It is sad that these players, who so depend on outside help to level, have no consideration for others. Perhaps with the fall of macros the chains will stop and allow Archers to learn their trade before they fall to the arrogants of power. I guarantee you that without leveling cheats most of the bad Archers you seen today would not be there. Making an Archer is fun but takes time. The Dweebs want power over others and fun has nothing to do with it. It they had to do it the way Tille and Harry Pooter did it they would pass. Greyscout put it best. He said there are two types, Archers and players with a bow. It was true years ago and it is true today.